Episode Overview
If you’ve ever felt the tension between growth and burnout or wondered how “learning by doing” really shapes leaders, this conversation delivers. Visionary at EOS Worldwide and Real Talk host, Mark O’Donnell, sits down with Matt Abrams—EOS Implementer, author, and lifelong learner—to trace an unconventional path: travel writer and photojournalist across 40+ countries, purpose-driven educator, then EOS Implementer.
They unpack praxis (learn → do → reflect → iterate), why many business issues are actually belief-system issues, and how curiosity, compassion, and community amplify outcomes. It’s a grounded look at accountability, culture, and the inner work behind durable leadership.
Key Takeaways
- Experience is the teacher. Travel and immersion built Matt’s empathy, perspective, and leadership instincts.
- Education = purpose + practice. Help people surface their personal core focus and create a container to use it.
- Praxis drives growth. Learn, act, reflect, integrate, repeat.
- Beliefs run the business. Many chronic issues trace back to unexamined stories leaders hold.
- Curiosity over judgment. Humility changes conversations and results.
- What you tolerate, you endorse. Leadership norms ripple across the company.
- Community compounds resilience. The help-first EOS Implementer network matters most in hard seasons.
Full Episode Transcript
Origins: Travel, Work & an Early Maker Mindset
Mark O’Donnell (00:01)
Hey there everyone, Mark O’Donnell here. Today I have with me Matt Abrams, EOS Implementer and just a great entrepreneur and human. Great to have you here, Matt.
Matt Abrams (00:15)
Thanks Mark, good to be here.
Mark (00:17)
You’re in Asheville, North Carolina. Tell us your entrepreneurial story—how did you become an Implementer?
Matt (00:37)
In my 20s I started a small contracting company that basically bankrolled travel. I worked as a travel writer and photojournalist—about 40 countries—and learned more in one year on the road than in 16 years in a classroom. That pushed me to question education’s purpose. I landed on this: help people discover their unique ability and create a container for it to flourish.
From Purpose to Praxis: Building an Intergenerational Incubator
Matt (02:22)
I built an intergenerational incubator for purpose-driven entrepreneurs (ages 16–87). We paired founders with 1:1 coaches, practice groups (think EO forum), and thought leaders. The idea was twofold: develop the leader and advance the venture. A core pillar was praxis—learn → do → reflect → integrate—an upward spiral rather than “learn then test.”
Discovering EOS: Skepticism, Reality Checks & a Pivot
Matt (04:45)
I met EOS Implementers at an EO/YPO facilitation training; they said EOS changed their lives. I was skeptical—“one thing can’t fit all companies.” But as more entrepreneurs mentioned EOS, I read Traction and realized how dysfunctional my business truly was: two visionaries, weak accountability—maybe 7% strong across the Six Key Components. The business eventually folded.
Matt (06:08)
I informally implemented EOS for a friend’s company. In three months, results were significant. That opened the door; I joined the community and haven’t looked back—~70 clients later, I feel like I’ve found my tribe and calling. I’m also working on a book about leadership, integrity, and conflict.
Lessons from the Road: Curiosity, Culture & Compassion
Mark (09:13)
Favorite place and biggest lesson?
Matt (09:45)
New Zealand is stunning; Cuba might be my favorite overall—beautiful and complex. I embed when I travel to understand cultures more deeply. Living with a Cuban family and comparing childhood norms—U.S. early work/independence vs. Cuba’s play-focused childhood—taught me to hold multiple truths. That curiosity and compassion now serve me in session rooms when tensions spike.
Why Praxis Fits EOS
Mark (17:51)
EOS mirrors praxis: Focus Day → try it → Vision Building → iterate. We don’t teach everything—some lessons you must learn by doing.
Matt (18:35)
Exactly. Grow or Die isn’t a slogan—it’s a learning posture. You can run 1,000 sessions and stagnate, or 300 and evolve. Lifelong learning is the point.
Two Layers of Struggle: Structure & Stories
Matt (22:07)
Clients struggle on two dimensions:
- Structural: hitting the ceiling, poor delegation, firefighting, weak prediction—classic Five Leadership Abilities gaps.
- Psychographic: belief systems and self-limiting stories at the individual and team level that keep problems chronic.
Example — The Two Seats Story (24:04):
An Integrator was also Head of Finance for two years. On the surface: “budget,” “no time,” “unique role.” Underneath: a childhood pattern of over-proving value. Once named, the team saw the cost, affirmed her worth, and moved to hire. Make the subconscious conscious or you’ll call it fate.
Culture Truth: What You Tolerate, You Endorse
Matt (28:49)
Leaders often keep wrong people too long and tolerate “pretty good” processes. Toleration becomes the culture.
Mark (30:13): Teams watch what you tolerate; it sets norms.
Matt (30:43): As goes the leadership team, so goes the company. If there’s a mist in the pulpit, there’s a fog in the pew.
Closing: Community, Vulnerability & the Help-First Ethos
Matt (31:33)
After a recent hurricane in Western North Carolina, the EOS Implementer community showed up in powerful ways. Be vulnerable. Ask for help. That’s how we deepen the fabric of this network and live our values.
Mark (33:16)
Appreciate you, Matt. Until next time.
